SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to the Joy-Inspired Podcast. I'm Nikki Cruz and I'm thrilled to explore with you what it means to walk in a faith-infused business. This is your space to find powerful tools and insights, to build with resilience and to create impact through your unique purpose, discovering a joy that only God can provide. Together, let's embrace a business journey anchored in faith and empowered by joy. Let's jump in. Well, hello, hello, hello there, my amazing friends, my entrepreneurs who are just bubbling with joy, I hope. And if you're not, you're in exactly the right place. Welcome back to the Joy-Inspired Podcast, where we talk about faith, business, leadership, purpose, and building a life that actually aligns with who God created you to be. And that is especially exciting with our guest today. Because when we sit down with somebody who brings such depth, wisdom, and clarity to the entrepreneurial space, amazing things happen. But you know what else? You might be sitting there going, who's this crazy lady? If you haven't met me before, my name is Nikki Cruz, often known as the Joy Junkie. And I'm somebody who's here to cheer you on. I don't carry you across the finish line because you get to cross that on your own with God by your side. But I can sit on the side and cheer you on, and I can let you know that joy is the strength that helps you get across the finish line. It's not what you find on the other side of the finish line. Today's guest is my amazing friend Matthew Sales. And Matthew has spent over 25 years. Yeah, he's that old. Over 20 years, five years building and scaling service businesses. And guess what? Now his focus has shifted. Any of you had that where God's got you going in a direction? He uses everything he's given you. He's equipped you with something for a new area of focus. So now he's shifted that to entrepreneurs and founders. And he's helping founders escape what he calls the founder ceiling. Not the finder ceiling, the founder ceiling. Because that place where business depends entirely on the founder to survive. You know, we begin building that and we don't even realize it. And we're going to be talking to Matthew all about that. But what really excites me when I spend time with Matthew is that his perspective isn't just about strategy. He talks about identity, alignment, patterns, systems, and the deeper questions most people are asking. Heard those things before, folks? Well, if you haven't go watch all the previous podcasts. But we align so wonderfully here. And this conversation is going to challenge some people in the best possible way. Because what we're diving into really is that reality that sometimes the issue isn't your business model, sometimes it's the way we've built ourselves into the center of everything. And everything is dependent on us. Now, my first problem with that, I might tell you before we get to Matthew, is that God should be the center of everything. That's the first thing. But we still sometimes think, okay, I'm going to stand at the center with God. So before we jump into business strategy, I always love to let people get to know my guests. But Matthew, thank you so much for being here today and welcome to the Joy-Inspired Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Oh, thank you so much, Nikki. I mean, that was just a fantastic introduction. Um, I don't know if I deserved even a quarter of that, but thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Oh, you deserve way more than that, my friend. And that's just in the little time I've known you. Now, you've spent all this time building and scaling a service business, which is huge in itself. But I'd love you to take us back for a moment. Who is Matthew when this journey started? And what were some of the lessons entrepreneurship taught you early on?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

So my journey has been uh working with uh large businesses and small businesses, and really from a uh operational architect and solutions architect background, I have a technical background. And I've always been the guy that they just throw in and say, here you go, Matt, figure it out. Uh work out this problem, find us find a solution to this problem, uh, figure out how to accomplish this task. Um and by the literally by the grace of God, I'd, you know, he'd he'd lead me through it. Um I've it and that that in itself has been uh really quite often a um a testimony because many of my uh co-workers or other people that I'd run into and be like, would ask, Matt, how do you know? I'm like, well, I pray a lot. And that's how I that's how I know. Um but ultimately I I love to see, and this is throughout my journey, I've I've always had a passion for people and had a passion for seeing them really step into uh everything that they're meant to achieve uh while on this while on earth. And it's it's always challenged me. I've always been um in various leadership uh positions and uh in the churches I've I've attended. I've originally from uh upstate New York. Uh I've now live in the UK, so I'm uh traveled around quite a bit. Uh my my journey's taken me to countless countries. Um had opportunity to to speak and meet with some just absolutely incredible people, um faith-build, some not, and that and that's okay. It's um my it's my personal conviction that everybody, whether you uh whether you follow Christ or not, whether you have that personal relationship, you uh every single person is created uh uniquely and in an image of God. And there is um uh a calling and and and abilities that are that are that ingrained into them, into each one of us. And I I long to just see that and call that out in everybody. And so what I've I I've worked with just like I said, I've worked with uh countless different uh companies and um and charities uh setting up their uh trading subsidiaries and uh different type different styles of business. Um I don't focus when I work with founders, I don't focus with uh any specific uh business because I over my journey I felt like the the the basic principles have remained the same, um no matter where you're at with your business and what type of business you are running. The the basic principles are are still there and they they make a difference um uh when you get them in alignment.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

And I think you've hit something powerful, not just a nail on the head, you've hit this huge big log that you're now narrowing down into whatever crevice it needs to go in. But you know, so often people think that the differentiation has to come in the business. You said you deal with different types of businesses, but you before that said every person is unique. Each of us, folks, has a purpose, has a calling. Before you were even a twinkle in your mama's eye, let me tell you right now, God was designing every hair on your head with a fine paintbrush, and that doesn't change with what you believe. You still have that purpose. So please, for those of us who are believers, let's not go disrespecting the people who aren't because they aren't walking in alignment with God yet. Let's respect them and let God use them and bring their gifts forward the way he intended, because his timing is perfect. So I just had to throw that in there because often we feel we have to only work with Christian people. Well, if God's told you to do that, that's fine, but don't use Christian snobbery to shoot yourself in the foot because somebody who's not a Christian has the perfect answer for you. I mean, God used people who weren't aligned with him throughout the Bible. We see it over and over again. So be open to where God's leading you. Okay, now let's get back to Matthew, yes, and a preaching for me. So, Matthew, you talk about this founder ceiling, and I love that phrase because I think so many entrepreneurs unknowingly become their own bottleneck, they kind of become their own strangle. And they're really trying to grow, but they're actually stifling themselves along the way. Can you explain what you mean by that founder ceiling principle?

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it just can very easily be summed up with sometimes the way our often are the way um we have either structured the business or even our our mindset when we are doing business, we are creating that ceiling. Uh, but what what happens is when we take a step back and we say, okay, this is who I am, this is who I'm created to be, this is the business that I'm supposed to be running, right? These are the people that I'm supposed to be reaching. When you look at those and you bring all those things into alignment, it it slingshots you past that that ceiling. And when we talk about, you know, like once you when you understand um how you are wired, your your own personal gifts, skill sets, you then can start to bring the team around you, right? That covers those weaknesses, and you start focusing in on the the tasks that the high impact tasks that you are meant to to impact as as the as the founder. And it it it really does uh just scale up and just grow in momentum as you continue to to journey and as you unlock and kind of realign everything, and you just blast through that that founder ceiling.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

And it makes so much difference because you're actually doing what God called you to do. You're not trying to do what everybody's supposed to do. I mean, there might be some people who can hit up a VA agency. Let me tell you right now, it ain't me. It ain't me, but I definitely have room and need and use of a VA. In fact, my business wouldn't survive without my VA. So you incorporate that and you do what you're passionate with. And sometimes we forget that. But what are some of the signs that someone's accidentally built their business and built a business that completely depends on them? How do you recognize it? Because you know the story, you can't read the label from inside the bottle.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Absolutely. I mean, if there if anything is out of alignment, the first of all, you could be you could be working really hard and not seeing results. So burnout is is the is is a is a sure sign that you are working too hard, most often in the wrong things, in the wrong areas, maybe even with the wrong customers. Um and so so burnout is a is a clear clear-cut sign. Uh another one is the work you're doing is sucking away, and you'll love this, sucking away your joy. So are the clients that you're working with, are they draining you and sucking away your joy? Are you just doing it because you you you're just like, well, I just have to get that paycheck in, right? I just have to take that client because I need the need the work. And it's a trap. It's a trap that all of us as entrepreneurs fall into, especially when you're starting out, you you're like, I will just take on any job I can because I just have to, I just have to get that income coming in. And it's that that desperation mindset, the um that that poverty mindset that it ends up choking us and restricting us um when we start to, you know, when it comes time to to grow, it actually holds us back from being able to grow. And one of the most powerful things we can do is actually learn to say no. Right. You know, I I love the conversation. We probably should have recorded it, but we had the conversation that, you know, both me and you, Nikki, we we we cover a very similar space. If we took a step back and we generalized what we do, we probably would say we we do pretty close to the same thing. But you understand the people that you're called to reach, and you tailored your language to to reach those people, right? And you and if they don't fit that, it's a it's easy to say no. And for me, it's the same thing, and I cover a different space. The people that I'm meant to reach, they're gonna be different from the people that you're meant to reach. And and and I I love I'll bring this back a little bit. I love the you know what Paul would do. Paul, the the gospel message was the same, but Paul would communicate it differently based on the um the people that he was talking to, right? And so he would he would come to them and reach them at where they were, and the gospel message remained the same. It was still the same message, but he he used language that they could connect to, that they could relate to, um and that and that and they would they would understand it had even deeper meaning than somebody else um hearing the same thing. Yeah. And and so when I work with founders, we look at that. Uh we we say, okay, who are uh you know, what are you building, right? Who are you meant to be reaching? You know, is your message aligned to those people? Right? I think the most wonderful thing is if our message is is really aligned to those people, it will filter out the people that we're naturally not supposed to be working with. Um I I think I've had this conversation, this exact same conversation with five or six founders in the past month where where they're struggling, they they're just not getting the joy out of work, they're they're they they're facing burnout because everything, because it's they're not just busy, but everything is just draining them with what they're doing. And when you s when you take a step back and say, okay, this is what makes me unique, this is this is really what gets me going and and how I can connect that to my business, right? And the customers that are coming into that business. When I when I've created that alignment, it just it unlocks a flow because um you you really are just kind of sliding in and reaching the people that you're meant to reach, and it's easier to say no to the things that that are good, just gonna be a distraction to you. Um and so I feel like I've rambled on a little bit, but uh but there you go.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

It begins to come naturally, and you can stand up and be yourself, you don't have to pretend to be anybody else, you know, you don't have to try and be anybody else. And another thing we were talking about before the show, pre-show, and I think we may even have some of it recorded, is that when you get to stand up and be your authentic self, the right people are drawn to you. And let me tell you, there is nothing worse for the client or the coach than working with the wrong person because you just get frustrated. You are saying the same thing, but in different languages. Yes, you might both be speaking English, but you're speaking it from a different cultural, a different business standpoint, a different all of those things. And this is so important. And I think so often we we get out there and we just we want to do business, we want our business to be a success. And this comes back to what is success? Success is not making the sale when you are not staying authentic to who God created you to be, your impact is gold. You what you are bringing forward is not having the impact you were intended to have, and I think some people confuse that concept of being needed because somebody will pay them, and actually being valuable, and those are two vastly different things, and until you recognize your unique gifts and skills and stop trying to do everybody else's, that doesn't happen. And we think that we have built this freedom in as an entrepreneur. What does every entrepreneur say they want? Freedom, but they don't realize that they've built themselves a job wearing the costume of freedom because hustle isn't freedom. So, okay, Matthew, we just have to go here because this is too good to miss. You say that you refuse to answer the question most founders ask you. So, what is the question most founders ask you?

SPEAKER_00 20:23

It it actually does vary, and but I still refuse to directly answer it because often what they come to me with is they come to me with how do I fix this symptom? Right? So how do I fix I'm I'm struggling, how do I fix, or how do I deal with the staffing issue, or how do I deal with um some of my technical systems? Or how do how do I get more leads in, right? Or I get too I get too many leads, but they're all tire kickers. What how do I fix that, right? You know, I'm facing burnout, I'm always always too busy. These are always symptoms of something that's that's deeper, and so that's why I refuse to directly answer them. So we we shared in the in the pre-show, which we you know, we can we can add that if uh if we need to, but one of my clients, he he he ran a um uh a service company, he he landscaping and groundskeeping. But when we looked at, he came to me with the question, Matt, do I go residential or do I go commercial? I feel like I'm outpricing myself in resid uh uh in residential. Uh commercial, I I'm more price competitive, but I'm not sure whether what I should do. And I we what we did is we took a step back and we said, okay. What clients have you really felt like you've made an impact? What c what past clients did you connect with? Did you enjoy working with them? Were they just did you did you really have an impact in what you did? And were they good financial did they did you earn make a good um a good profit from those clients? When we look back, we could clearly see a trend that there were certain personality types, certain types of clients that fit like a psychological profile, not a commercial or residential or income level. It was a it was a personality type that he connected with because ultimately his desire was that he create this garden experience that can be experienced that people can enjoy God's creation year-round. And if somebody wasn't, if that's not what somebody wanted, it he didn't connect. You are creating a year-round experience for them so that they can go into their garden and experience God's creation and enjoy God's creation and enjoy that that place of sanctuary. When we've reframed everything that way, and we are able to kind of get him out of that mindset of, oh, I'm just uh cutting grass or I'm just doing that, and said, I and just understand that this is what he's meant to do. This is how he's meant to impact people's lives. Um naturally the people who wanted who want that type of service came to him. They're drew to him. It was it was a l the funny thing is it was literally half an hour later after this conversation, somebody came up to him and and we started to talk. And so he was able to put these principles into practice almost immediately. And um, and it's transformed his business. And so it's the same thing with with everybody else. It's like, okay, let's take a step back. Maybe you don't know where exactly what you're meant to be doing or who you're meant to be reaching. Take a step back and take a look at your past clients, right? You know, how fulfilling were your past clients? Were there any that were really fulfilling that you were able to make a a massive impact? Um and financially, was it viable? You know, look at those things. You'll start to identify little trends, and they will be pointers for you to be able to find who you're meant to be working.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

You said something again there. There's so much wisdom here, folks. I hope you're catching this. And what Matt's talking about is don't come and ask someone to give you a tactic or a solution to a problem. Find the root cause of that problem. And this is so true of light. This aligns with how God tells us to come to Him as well. But it also is all about identity because instead of looking where your identity is out of alignment with your calling, your passion, and your purpose, when you are not standing in your identity, you start building stuff that doesn't align. And you know, when you start doing that, you start finding the joy leaking. And you know what? Like I always say, joy is a signal, the strength of your joy tells you whether you're out of alignment or not. And I think that if you check in the show notes, you might just find the joy self-assessment in there too. If you don't, let me know and we'll get you on it. Because you get to say, what is my business telling me? But when founders start choosing to deal with the real issue instead of chasing all the rest of this, that is when they can go way past that founder ceiling Matt was talking about. That's right. So how do you, Matt, discern what you are actually called to build? Or how would you encourage other people to discern that? Because faith plays a big part in that for you and I.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

The alignment on if I was to, like I said, one tool is look if you're already started out and you're already reaching customers, you you self-assess and say, okay, what am I doing that's stealing my joy? Right? What am I doing that is super effective? Or what am I doing that is I'm spinning my wheels and I don't feel like I've accomplished anything. You these are tells that will help steer you in the right direction. Now, if you you know, obviously, as you know, we have the ability to pray and hear from God and hear what he's asking us to do. And and when when we follow in obedience, you know, he gives us the grace to fill to fulfill those tasks. Um other people don't have that that relationship. And so the the steps that we that I take them through is is more practical, but also I personally will listen to the Holy Spirit and say, hey, I think this is where you're meant to be. This is what I see in you. And I can start to speak into that. And I it you know, I I praise the Lord because He has given me the ability to say, Hey, this is this is what I've got for this person. Yes, and and I can I I have the just the privilege to kind of guide them down and help them see what they've been created to be.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Yeah, that's beautiful, and often it's not, you know, this is very much part of the God Talks program, and I am a certified God talks coach. You don't hear God for other people, but you help people hone in what God has given them. Sometimes they're not hearing him, so you help them show it, but their passion lights up. And we, as kingdom business architects, as I would call us, are building businesses in partnership with God. So we surrender these things to God where we feel things leaking. But where you feel things leaking, it shows that there is a clarity gap, either in identity, in messaging, or in audience, and each one will be leaking something different, either your time on your calendar or your revenue or your clients. That's right, and it tells you something. And Matt is what Matt is talking about is ways that you can see that. But I think people so often assume that surrender is weakness, and that surrender weakens the momentum you have because you're not running and keeping going. But often surrender is what finally gives momentum the direction because you've slowed down long enough to let all the rest clear and you can take off again. So, enough for me again. You see, I just get so excited talking to Matt. I love that you said for years I was the heroics, and you were into all the heroics, and many entrepreneurs I think can relate to that. I want to be the hero of the story. Can you tell us what you see as the difference between a business built on heroics and a business built on systems?

SPEAKER_00 30:32

A business built on heroics will fall because it all rests on you. A business built on systems, and when I talk about systems, it could be your regular routines, the people around you, and and and all the processes. And we can I I get into that with with my clients. We we map all that out and see how do we get you out of the day-to-day. But when you when when the business is built on heroics, you often end up brute forcing your way through. You you you often end up fighting a burnout because you're just like, I'm just gonna put my head down and just work and work and work. And I've done that, right? I've I've had to go through that process myself. Um, and that's really where I'm talking to people about now, is I'm I'm quite content with sitting in the background. So I don't it it it doesn't have I don't want it to be about me. It's about what God can do and what I see God can do through you. Um I'd rather be the person that can sit in the background, cheer you on, maybe give advice and and guide you and show you, hey, you go this way, you go that way, or you look at these these different things and work through these different those things, you'll succeed and you'll grow and you'll flourish. Um and so anything that uh is sustainable, um, you cannot be the hero. Uh, if it's going to uh last you know generations, it's gotta be built on systems. You've got it, you've got to build out those processes, you've got to build out those right regular rhythms, routines, and you've got to be able to have the team around you that you that you've empowered to be able to take take that baton and and keep going.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Yeah. When when it's built on heroics, especially if you want to be the hero, that's all about ego. And you know what ego stands for? Edging God out. And we never want to edge God out. So keep him in the center there, folks. Because when you lose your peace, when you lose your health or your family or your joy, that is just too high a price to pay. So success that costs you that is just too expensive. You can bring the price down by aligning with your passion and your purpose. So, Matt, just a bit of fun for a moment. A couple of rapid fire questions. Coffee or tea.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Oh dear, okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Coffee or tea?

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Oh, that's an easy one. It's always gonna be coffee.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Structure or spontaneity.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Ooh. A bit of both. I'm sorry. I can't go back and forth. I I have to have both.

SPEAKER_01 33:52

One word people usually use to describe you.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Crazy.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

Biggest myth about entrepreneurship.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

That you can do it alone.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

One book every entrepreneur should read. Or everyone should read. Let's make that turn.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

Beside the Bible?

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Beside the Bible.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

I'm gonna go with uh Atomic Habits by James Clear.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Nice. One thing founders overcomplicate.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

One thing founders overcomplicate is their is their vision.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Yes. And what brings you joy outside of business?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Being in God's creation.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

What do you like the most? Rivers, mountains, trees, open?

SPEAKER_00 34:57

My favorite is definitely gonna be oceans. Uh, but I do, but I do like trees and fields quite a bit as well. But it's it's it's always it's gonna be oceans for me. Put me near water, I'm I'm a happy camper.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

And I can so relate to that. Now, back to a slightly more serious question for the entrepreneur listening now, who's sitting there thinking, I hear you, I'm feeling exhausted, I'm stuck, I've oh and I'm overwhelmed. I might even be trapped, not sure, but I might be trapped in my business. What would you want them to hear today?

SPEAKER_00 35:42

God has created you for so much more, and you can do it. Um but it means letting go. I think the the thing that that we we often struggle with is when we hold on tight to what we think we should have or we think we should build, it becomes a burden. The thing that I've learned through my walks with Christ is I have I've learned I have to hold things like this so it uh can leave my hands when the season is done. And so the way things happen, the way you're if you're feeling if you're struggling, the you're probably so close to what you need to be doing, but there may be something that you just need to let go of and then realign yourself, and you'll just see yourself flourish.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

And I know that's a word for someone because we were actually talking about this earlier today on another call. I was on that when you are holding your hand tight, there's no room for anything new to go in. But when you open it up and surrender, God can take things out, but there's also more surface area for God to deposit what he wants to give you. And this might be the perfect moment if you're sharing that, because Matthew has a really special gift to offer our audience today. And you know, this is very generous of him. Now, don't all go rushing to pick up your pens and paper, especially if you're driving, because it is in the notes. The link is in the notes, and if you have any problem, just contact me. But Matthew, tell us what your gift is today.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

I want to give you the gift is a piece of my time, and so I I will spend a bit of time with um whoever wants to book it, and we will just take a 25 minutes and just do a deep dive and see where we can bring in line. The goal is to is that you identify what needs to change, um, and just that's how you can pivot your business to be able to break past that founder ceiling.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

And for those of you who don't want to jump on a call, but you want to be following Matthew, Matthew, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 38:29

They can find me uh I'm most active on LinkedIn. So they can find me uh on LinkedIn. Uh should be just LinkedIn, Matthew Sales. Um, and you or you could look at my website, uh, which is um stratusbusiness.co.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

And again, those are all down below in the comments. Matthew, this has been an amazing conversation. I could talk with you for hours, and I thank you for what you bring to the world, for the way you honor God in your business, and for being my guest here on the Joy Inspired Podcast. Now, you audience, for those of you listening, if this touched you, if there was even one nugget here that somebody else gets to hear, please share this with them. Like it, subscribe, and share with at least one person, preferably five, but at least one. Today, at least one. And remember that you get to share this because God gives us wisdom. Matt was saying earlier, people say, wow, it's great. But you know what God says? If any man seeks out wisdom, I will honor that. God will give you wisdom if you ask for it. Now, somebody might be out there asking for wisdom, and your sharing this podcast might be the answer to that prayer. So remember that. And what I love most about this, that it wasn't just about scaling business, it was about building something that aligned, that was sustainable, and that was true to who we actually are. And that is something that is so precious to God. And I think that matters so deeply because so often we're told by the world to fit in, to do it their way. No, do it your way. God gave you a unique way to do it. So, Matt, thank you for your wisdom, your honesty, and the way that you are helping other people do what they do. Any last words for our listeners?

SPEAKER_00 40:47

I love to, uh yeah. I just thank you for your time. I thank you for um the the opportunity to to share, and I really do wish you all the best.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Thank you very much. And remember, folks, to everybody listening, remember joy is not something you earn after success. Joy is what gets you through to the success. That was that is why the joy of the Lord is your strength. So, look forward to seeing you next week on the next episode of the Joy Inspired Podcast. Blessings all. Bye. Thank you so much for joining me on the Joy Inspi podcast at www.joyinspiredpodcast.com. Make sure you hit that subscribe button so that you can get this and every other episode that comes out. We have lots of great stuff coming, and you don't want to miss it. So make sure to hit that subscribe. I am so grateful for all the reviews and comments, and I look forward to serving you for next week's episode.