Season 2: Episode 34 - Process Before Product

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to the Joy-Inspired Podcast. I'm Nikki Cruz, and I'm thrilled to explore with you what it means to walk in a faith-infused business. This is your space to find powerful tools and insights, to build with resilience, and to create impact through your unique purpose, discovering a joy that only God can provide. Together, let's embrace a business journey anchored in faith and empowered by joy. Let's jump in. Well, hello, hello, hello, my amazing joy-inspired friends. I have got such a treat for you today. And if you're wondering who this crazy woman is, I'm commonly known as the Joy Junkie. But my official name is Nikki Cruz. And I love to be somebody who inspires you, who brings joy to your world of entrepreneurship and business. Because you know what? God never gave us a passion, a purpose, or a desire to have a business, wanting us to burn out carrying it out. So if that's where you're at, this is the perfect, perfect episode with for you today. So as we go forward and as we talk more about process before product, which is why some of you might be feeling weary and worn out, let me introduce my amazing friend Wayne Pratt. Wayne, I am so glad you're here. And you know, I have to say, before we even started recording, we had such a great time talking. I often think that those are moments I should record, and I should have a whole series called pre-episode chats. But I want to welcome you to our podcast, Wayne, all the way from Canada.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

And we're excited. And you might be saying, Well, who is this white-haired moustached guy who looks like a white-haired Charlie Chaplin? He does a bit, you know. And he has the humor to go with. Not sarcastic, but genuinely love from the heart. And I think that's why we get on so well. We're both I'm not sarcastic.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

Can I get that in writing?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Well, we're both all about joy, but you know, Johnny Chaplin can be a little bit hard at times. I've never heard that from you, Wayne. And I just want to welcome you. What we're really talking about here today is people, isn't it? Yes. But so tell us, Wayne. The process behind the product, building the person behind the business is the topic you chose for today. But before we get into any of that, tell us. Tell my audience who is Wayne, not the coach, not the author, not the entrepreneur, who is Wayne Pratt?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

You said we only had 40 minutes. Cliff notes, cleft notes. Well, actually, I will tell you something that uh we had now 20 years ago a pastoral change at church, and the new pastor said, uh, who is this Wayne Pratt? Like, I want to know my people. Who's this Wayne Pratt? And he actually said he is so good at asking for forgiveness because he gets so much practice. So I am a uh a person who um loves being off the wall and silly, but yet I absolutely love business and corporate, and sometimes I feel lost in both communities. Someone said I would be good if I was like a philosopher that had a rim shot. Imagine Robin Williams as a life coach. Now that would be exciting.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

And how, and how. And you know, when you when you started talking about the new pastor, I was thought you were going to talk about the length of his sermons, but you obviously hold them up at the um confessional table or the prayer there at the end, which is why they say that. But you know what? Isn't it beautiful that when you get so good at asking for things, it's because you've got lots of practice, and then you can teach other people how to do it. And in our discussion beforehand, I was just saying to Wayne, people sometimes say to me, Are you always joyful? And I go, No, I have my moments just like everybody else, but I've had so much practice having to choose it that I've learned to choose it fast because life is too short. But you know, Wayne, you have been coaching for well over a decade. Sorry, don't mean to give your age away.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Did little Wayne ever imagine he would be in this situation coaching other people?

SPEAKER_00 5:30

Yes and no. Coaching wasn't even around when I was that little person. I actually wanted to be a motivational speaker. And I joke I tell is that I used to, I I wanted I used to be a motivational speaker, but I got depressed. But I found that there was a a bankruptcy in the motivation business. That you walked into the hotel, the man's wearing a $5,000 suit, you get this beautiful vinyl binder, you open it up, it has DVDs, you have all kinds of places to take notes. And a year later, you have the same job, the same wife, the same dog, the same apartment. Nothing changed. And that's when I realized coaching made a lot more sense than motivation.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Yeah, yep. And yet, most of those people in those days, you thought they were gonna motivate you, but they were just giving you a framework and telling you how to do it.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

So for two weeks you could. For two weeks you could.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah, absolutely. And that's the difference. We hear it all the time now about transformation. You know, we can change clothes, but it doesn't change our body structure, and it doesn't matter how much you squeezed yourself into skinny jeans, you're still the same size inside those jeans. Okay, yes, I've been trying to do that recently. So, Wayne, what first drew you to coaching or before that to motivational speaking?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Well, being around sales. I was always around sales, so you take sales courses. And so you'd see the guy on the stage, and you go, I could do that, I could do that, I could do that, and whether it was Tony Robbins, Zig Ziggler, um, you know, not in person, but Napoleon Hill, Brian Tracy, I go, I could do that. But actually, you were like this. Um, I am what I would say an outsized personality. And I had a bank offered me $5,000 not to come to work anymore. So I took that $5,000, and all of a sudden my emails were filled with coaching uh school offers. So I took them at face value and bought in.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Excellent. And you are a certified Jack Canfield coach, correct?

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Doubly certified. Both I was certified in Vancouver five years before, and Jack Canfield as well. Yes. Fantastic. Jack is the best packager of this of anyone I've seen. Um yes, I am certified.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Fantastic. And you know, that's quite a certification. We know a lot of names, and we don't often hear Jack Canfield's name mentioned anymore. But when you look at the impact he has, you know, it's huge. It's huge.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

And you say chicken soup for the soul. Exactly. The guy sold a half a billion books.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

And I was recently listening to him on the LA Tribune um summit, and you hear this man talk. What an incredible, incredible person. So that was just one of my little squirrels. If you guys don't know who Jack Canfield is, get hold of Wayne Pratt, he'll tell you. So, you know, in all this journey of going from motivation to coaching, one of the things you landed on was that people got to discover more about clarity. Yes. And boy, those listening who know me know this is one of the things I'm about. Clarity. If you don't have clarity on your purpose or clarity on your identity in Christ, what where are you gonna go? So, what made you realize that people got to discover clarity and that that was your primary calling?

SPEAKER_00 9:54

This is actually frighteningly an accident. Uh, when I took the coaching school, I was so excited I'd be able to offer all this good advice, all this good wisdom that I had been able to bottle up. And I found out nine months in they had the answer, not me. My job was just to unpack what they had. My job was just to lower the noise level so they could bring out their true self. And as I said, it was a really tough nine months, but we did it, and that's where clarity came through. Here's the neat thing do you know what a reticular filter is? I think so.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Explain. In case anybody else out there doesn't. Of course, I know.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Good answer. What whether it is actually a gland or a concept, it is real. And here's the example: you buy a brand new Mustang convertible, a red Mustang convertible. And on the way home, you see that every single car on the road is a Mustang convertible. That is because your articular filter decided that was important to you. And what Clarity was doing is trying to keep you sane by limiting your scope. And every now and again they limited it too far. And that's why we ended up with people who were stuck. And yes, so that is why clarity is so incredibly important. As I said, if you need to have uh $25,000 in sales this week and get your dry cleaning by six o'clock, and you give them the both the same amount of priority, you may not get the sales or the dry cleaning.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Oh, oh, so well said. I love that because that lack of clarity creates a confusion. And I I call that the things that cloud your joy. Yes. Sometimes you've actually just got to get rid of those clouds, you've got to dust that stuff off so that you know what's going to bring you joy, because then you would more than likely not go for the dry cleaning first, in most instances. However, everybody to their own. And you wrote something incredibly powerful in your application. You said clients are people who are comfortably unhappy.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Those are the people I want to work with. Those the people I want, I'm actually getting tingly hearing about it. Comfortably unhappy people break my heart. And the reason is they they got stuck in the rut. And 10 years ago, that was it was I'm stuck, I'm stuck, I'm stuck. But the comfortably unhappy is when you were seven, you knew exactly what you wanted to be, whether it was an astronaut or a ballerina or whatever it was you knew. And then once again, maybe when you went to university, you were going to be a marine biologist, and everything was marine biologist, and you knew you were going to be a marine biologist, and then life hits. And then life was just a series of whack-a-mole, and that is why you life is miserable, you aren't on the street, you're not swearing at passers-by, but you aren't everything you dreamed you could be. And there's one school that says, burn your house down and start over. I think that's dangerous, and I think it's foolish. But helping them to be um on a mission, on a journey rather than comfortably unhappy is the dream.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Oh, I love that. And because if you burn the house down, you burn a lot of what you've already gained that is gonna help you build forward. But why do you think so many people stay there so long, Wayne?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

I'll tell you why. Um life taught is definitely different than life hoped for, and so that what you learned plays a huge role, and so that you start accepting because it's better than resisting, it's just easier. And the other hand, here's the other biggest thing. In North American culture, I can't speak for Europe, I don't know. But in North American culture, we buy things as goals that aren't ours. I call it recycling. They're a spouse's goal, they're a dead relative's goal, they're a seventh-grade teacher's goal, they're your grandfather's goal, but they weren't yours. So you're eh, eh. You even you even on New Year's Eve quote them, but you're not invested in. That is my journey.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

That's so interesting because this conversation's come up a number of times for me this week, and that is there's a difference between your goals and your values.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

And so often we set goals because they please other people, and we don't we get stuck in trying to create those, make those goals come to life and happen, and they don't because they are not our true value. So wow, that that's not the first time that's come up this week. God must be telling me something. So when we do get to that place where we want to get unstuck, there's something huge that comes into play, and it did for you, and that's faith. You said faith shaped your business in two different ways. Yes. Tell us about those two ways.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Well, one I have to tell you, Nikki does an amazing job of peeling out what she hopes to hear in the way she asks the question. But but the first is obvious. The first is I will stay at this tomorrow, uh, tomorrow, even though I want to quit, because there must be some reason I'm doing this, and maybe it's to honor God. So, what it whatever language you use for the divine, that's step one.

unknown 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

And the other thing is, you know, if you've ever um, you know, watch television on Sunday morning, uh, there's all these evangelists say we have to spread this news. Actually, you'll like this, you're of an age, you might get this. Anytime I would go to a bank machine and it asked me for my code, I'd I'd type it in and says, I want to be approved. I feel the approval. So, yeah, so the with without being preachy, without being uh phony, without where you know having big hair and dimples, letting people know that the reason you're doing this is because of something divine in you that you want to give. When you can do that with sincerity and joy, what a great name, um, you're laughing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah. And it's when you're aligned with that, when you're aligned with what God has placed in you and your purpose, and that you can see that lights me up. That's where you find the joy, that's how joy feeds you, and that's how you feed your joy. You align your faith, passion, and purpose. Yes, it's not about all those other things. And that takes us perfectly into the next session, which you is what you brought up as the title process before product. Yes, you know, I love that you suggested that title because it's something I believe too. It comes back to what do we consider as success? Are you just shipping a product or is success the transformation you see on the way there? So, where did that come from for you and why is process more important than the product?

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Sure, I really think this is important. We're on this little electronic box that many of us are on, mostly because of a pandemic, closed our stores at some level. And um, so what we did is we electronic we electronicalized what we were already doing, and it was very transactional. This thing became a cash register, and that's what we thought it was. And then in coaching, there is a group of people that I call the um Two Feet More Club. They want the bigger house, the newer car, the bigger boat, and you you need to give them some of that because that's what that's why they showed up. But if they're not if they're just transaction, you're gonna lose them in 90 days, and it's for the best. If they're not willing to develop themselves, then why are you pouring your energy into it?

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Wow, that is quite a game changer for many of us. I think, especially for new coaches who sit there and look and think, I've got to help them improve the product they produce on the end. You know that products fade, products die, people leave legacy. Yes. And uh I think that's the big shift here. And process is more important than product. Number one, you can't get to the product without the process. So if you're focusing on the product, you might just try and take, and I think this is what we see happening. Take every shortcut to get that product complete. But why do you think that coach that entrepreneurs in general, not just coaches, have become so obsessed with the outcome? Now I know we all say, what's the outcome you deliver? But why do you think we've become so obsessed with outcome?

SPEAKER_00 20:22

I'll tell you, we I I know the reason. It's evening television in 40 minutes. Um the crime has been solved, the boat has been launched, the beautiful home has been built, so that no one wants to invest in the 15 years it took.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

That we won't send that bit to the network, shall we? Um, but yeah, it's so true. It's we're in a rush, we're in a rush to get the outcome, and I think we lose the treasures along the way, and it's one thing that I certainly teach, and a lot of coaches do teach celebrate along the way. Your brain needs the dopamine of the small stages to keep the joy, you know, so that you have a oh, there's a win, but it was only that I made one step forward. And I have a system where I tell people to move a marble every time you do something, move a marble, put it in the jar. You know why? When you're getting discouraged and you think you haven't got there yet, you don't look at what you haven't got, you look at how many marbles you did move, because that's about the process.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

So have you ever heard of jelly bellies? Yes, they were yeah, they were a very expensive gumdraw or uh jelly bean. They still are yeah, okay. Well, they seem to have gone, I don't see them anymore, but but I actually had one. Client that every time he made a cold call, he bought himself one jelly belly. So in a two-hour session, he had these many jelly bellies, and it kept him. Um yes, it was theater and it was a bit of a gimmick, but it worked for him exactly what you just said.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

It is, it's celebrating every step along the way, so that you're not only concerned with the end, because you can purchase the end at no personal growth. And I think that's what you were saying right in the beginning. That personal growth is really what uh inspires me. Seeing people's eyes light up, seeing them go, oh wow, you know, rather than, oh yeah, I got there. Thank you for the certificate. I have a number of clients who have previously said to me, but I have to have a certificate. I say, well, give me 20 minutes and I'll go and create you one and print it and mail it to you. It's not the certificate, it's what the certificate is worth and represents.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Partially because he was a big boy and partially because he was a Canadian, but John Candy was in a book, uh movie called Cool Runnings. Yes. And he was he was a disgraced coach, and he was teaching the Jamaican bobsled team, and they asked him about his Olympic medal. And he says, if you aren't enough without the medal, you'll never be enough with it. And I still 20 years later, still focus on that.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

That and I I actually have seen that movie, and I remember that exact scene, and that whole movie actually is so powerful in stories. The people, the Jamaicans, Bobsledding on snow, folks. Nothing is impossible if you put your mind to it. They were laughed at, everything happened, but they didn't just go and win the medal, and the didn't just go and buy the medal in the title. It's a cool movie to watch. It's called Cool Runnings. Oh, yeah, you're bringing back memories. So you've painted such an honest picture, yes. And I'm going to ask you to be vulnerable, and you can say no, I'm still gonna press. But you know, the excitement when a contract lands is great, and the joy of seeing money hit the bank is great, but even greater is knowing that you've genuinely changed somebody's life. That's what this journey is all about. But you also have shared some incredibly honest moments when you lost your biggest client. Yep. Imagine that wasn't just a financial hit. Nope. What happened? Tell us the story to encourage others.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Excellent. Well, one thing that I learned in this coaching journey is one of the traps that some coaches get in is they want it for the client more than the client does. And that is both real and an addiction. I mean, no less than alcohol, but where you can taste it and you can see it. And sometimes you even created a vision that you think is from God. And they either give up or don't see it, and you go, no, listen, listen, listen. And so I yes, it was a big client, and yes, I thought there was going to be a future that came just from that client relationship, but also there was no way to let him be what he could be according to what God gave me for him. So, yes, it was very it took a while to bounce back.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

And you know, you can want something for somebody else, but if they don't see it for themselves, you cannot paint that picture on the inside of their eyelids. You know, if they're not gonna see it, they're not gonna see it. And I've been guilty of that. Taking a client and saying, Oh, it's okay, I'll carry you across the finish line. And there's some clients I did in my early years carry across the finish line. And when I put them down on the other side, they couldn't own their victory because it wasn't their victory.

unknown 26:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

And my back really hurt from carrying them. So there's a lesson for all you younger and newer coaches out there. Yes, don't carry anyone across the finish line. It is their race to complete. You can cheer them on from the sides, you can hand them water bottles, you can run alongside them, but I encourage you not to carry them across the finish line. It creates a false sense of achievement for everybody, including yourself. And it is actually quite detrimental when they look in retrospect for them and you. So Wayne, thank you so much. And I do, I thank you for that, honestly. And it encourages us when we hear that not everybody had it made from day one, everybody goes through these journeys. But I know so many of our listeners are building businesses that don't happen overnight, you know? Surprise, surprise. If you've built a business that happens overnight, I would love to know your secret because I don't believe that's how it works, especially because I believe God strengthens us for the journey, in the journey, every step. But how do you help people stay encouraged, Wayne, when the dream is still a year away or two years away, or in the distance?

SPEAKER_00 28:20

I sell them my book! Woo!

SPEAKER_01 28:23

There we go, there we go. And freshly brewed coaching, I love that name. And how did you come by that name?

SPEAKER_00 28:35

That is a neat, neat story. Um, I uh had been doing podcasting with a man in Ottawa, and we were going well, and and we were talking to a lot of people who were coach trained coaches, and they were usually executive coaches. They were coaching the CEO and the CFO and the CMO and the COO, and they all got it, and even the you know the senior vice president of sales, but not Main Street. So Wall Street got it, not Main Street. And so I met a uh client um on a podcast who was from the town I was in. And I said, Hey, you're not from Switzerland or uh Denmark or Texas. Let's get together for a coffee. And I told him about my hobby horse that I wanted to take these tools to Main Street. And he came up with something called a business fable, which I didn't even know was a thing. And he used the one example, who moved my cheese? So we actually created a story, a fable, where they were in a coffee shop, these two coaches, and they were teaching coaching so they could take their new material to the big city. And then we walked the people in the the cafe, the cafe, the imaginary cafe, there was no freshly brewed coffee, um, and we we had them achieve their dreams. So that's where freshly brewed coaching came from.

SPEAKER_01 30:06

Oh, I love that. I love that. And you know what? Can you guys just tell the joy that Wayne has about what he does and even about his book and what he's done? And when I have two questions for you before we begin to wrap up. And the first is you know, you have been in the industry for quite some time. When you look at the coaching industry, what concerns you the most today?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

There's two. Um, it's actually in another book I wrote called 31 Days never uh hire a barefoot shoemaker. Okay. Yes, and and and so and so the other thing is when the lights are off, are they able to live their life with integrity? I'm not saying perfect, there's no perfect, but are they the same with the lights on or the lights off? If they view their clients as marks, that's a circus, and that's a different story. It has its own value, but it's a different story.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

Yeah, yeah, and uh so important, and if you're an aspiring coach or a new coach, this is so valuable to recognize it doesn't mean we talk about authenticity a lot on this show, but authenticity doesn't mean that you have to put everything in front of the world, but what it does mean is that you have to be the same, whether people are watching or not. Yes, your values, your actions, your integrity remains the same regardless of who's watching. And you know what's amazing about that? That often being in this world we forget, God is always watching. He always knows, but he never looks down and condemns you. And if you need to pivot a little in that, I encourage you, don't go and hide in a dark corner and hide away for fear of God's condemnation, reach out to God and say, God, show me where and how to take the next step to do that. Yes, and the other thing is that Wayne said, you know what? Do not see people as marks. You are called to serve them, and the minute you start focusing on, oh, this is where my next check is coming from, you are no longer looking at the transformation you get to bring that person, and that doesn't serve the client or yourself. So thank you. Very, very wise words there. And you know, as this episode of the Joy Inspired Podcast ends, I know Wayne, you it's been so much fun, but you have a very generous gift for our audience. Would you like to tell them about it?

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yes, I can. It's neat when you work for a fortune, let's say Fortune 500 country company.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

I'm gonna stop you right there because I forgot to say something I usually say. For those of you who are listening while you're driving, you don't need to try and write this down or rush and try and grab a pen and paper. It is in the show notes, it will be there printed for you. Please do not have a traffic accident because you don't want to miss more of Wayne. Go ahead, Wayne.

SPEAKER_00 33:58

Unless the traffic accident was part of your transformation. Okay. No, that's dark. Forgive me. In the Fortune 100 companies, you walk into the lobby and there's the mission statement, and it's beautiful, and it's framed, and it uses lofty words. And then sometimes you go into the lunchroom and there's the same mission statement. And I believe people need a mission statement to get through the bad days. So we've developed a personal mission statement generator that is in 15 minutes going to change what you want to be when you grow up, even if you're 70. And it's available in this package. And um, by the way, it's uh all I ask is if it is a ha and you you go, this is you hit me, this is exactly right, then you have to send me an email. That's the only cost.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

And if you have questions about this when you're going through it, because I know a couple of you are gonna go, hang on a second, hang on a second, I don't want to change where I think I'm heading. Then you get to just put a couple of comments below the podcast. And Wayne and I will be keeping our eyes out for that. So, Wayne, thank you so much for being here with us today and for bringing a lot of laughter, but even more wisdom. And I so appreciate you, I value you, your your energy, your love, your hope, your direct focus on what brings transformation. Yes, because that's what it's all about. So, folks, if you've been listening and you know somebody who you think would benefit from this conversation, and I'm sure you do, please be sure to tag them or share this with them. And don't forget to hit that like and the subscribe button because we want you to be getting more and more of this. You know why? So that you can live a joy-inspired life with a joy-inspired business and people like Wayne come on here and share their experience and their wisdom so that you can do just that. So, Wayne, right before you go, what is one thing you would like to leave our listeners remembering today?

SPEAKER_00 36:34

When you come up with whatever your big picture is through clarity and prayerful wisdom, never stop until there's an action step.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

So that's your first pause, is the action step, and then you can move a marble or eat a jelly belly. It's up to you. So, folks, thanks once again for joining us. It's been a pleasure having you here, and I look forward to seeing you next week on the Joy Inspired Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me on the Joy Inspired Podcast at www.joinspiredpodcast.com. Make sure you hit that subscribe button so that you can get this and every other episode that comes out. We have lots of great stuff coming, and you don't want to miss it. So make sure to hit that subscribe. I'm so grateful for all the reviews and comments, and I look forward to serving you in next week's episode.