Season 2: Episode 37 - Love Always Wins

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome to the Joy-Inspired Podcast. I'm Nikki Cruz, and I'm thrilled to explore with you what it means to walk in a faith-infused business. This is your space to find powerful tools and insights, to build with resilience, and to create impact to your unique purpose, discovering a joy that only God can provide. Together, let's embrace a business journey anchored in faith and empowered by joy. Let's jump in. Hello, my friends. It is good to see you back again. Yes, it's Nikki Cruz, the Joy Junkie of Joy Inspired, and I am so pleased to have you here this week with us. And we are going to have an amazing discussion with one of my new friends. And this is something that really is, excuse the pun, at the heart of what God wants for us. Because, you know, I talk about joy, but if love is missing, you cannot have joy. And I'm not talking about Valentine's love and all that ooey-gooey stuff. I'm talking about deep-centered, the heart of God love. And today we are talking to Katina Wilkins. And this is what God has called her to share. And Katina, I've heard you talk, you've presented on my summits, and I love the way you share your message. And it's an honor and privilege to have you here. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. So today, in addition to talking about the joy that we have, we're going to be talking about something that touches all of our lives. You know, we all want love, but we also have a tough time loving other people sometimes. Because loving people when loving them feels difficult, uh, and yet that's what God calls us to do. It's one thing to talk about the love of Jesus, and it's a totally different thing to practice it. When a conversation has gone sidewards or someone has pushed that all too familiar button, can any of you relate? Well, if you can, and if you're eager to hear more and you're not driving, grab a pen and paper. If you're driving, it's okay. You can watch the replay and know that you're not missing out because all the details will be in the show notes. But I want to just bring this beautiful woman and her heart forward, because through morning by morning life coaching, you help Christian women explore how to love difficult people. Even though they are seeking God's direction and how to do it, because it can get a little bit difficult at times. Any of the rest of you had those moments where you're going, oh God, help me love them, but please take them out of my life. You know, I have, and then we sit there and we go, okay, but God, you didn't take them out of my life. Well, that's because God's growing something in you. I really want to know, Katina, your heart behind that work. But first, what is something that has brought you joy this week?

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Oh, I so I wrote a book, uh, it's a Bible study on this topic of love is complicated. And I just sold my 200th book this week. So that brings me great joy.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

That is amazing. Congratulations. I kind of wish I had one of those fancy buttons that you press and the confetti drops all over the screen. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 4:07

Yes, very exciting. So you've got the book, the Bible study. How did this particular work become your calling? What drew you to helping women navigate relationships with people they find difficult to love?

SPEAKER_00 4:22

So it was really um my own journey that God brought me on. So I was having a difficult time loving certain people in my life. Um, I was having a hard time with loving my mother, and um, at the time she was very demanding, and I was I'm a people pleaser. So this is something you have to know about me is that I believed that loving other people was pleasing them. And so when I could not please everybody in my life, then I was feeling like I was failing. I was failing them, I was failing at loving, I was failing at I was failing God. And um, and so I had um my mom, my husband, and my teenage daughter at the time that were all um giving me a lot of pressure. And uh my sister uh also was in this category a little bit, and she had challenged me and just said, Do you realize how many times in the Bible it tells us to love one another, to love each other? And does your daughter feel loved? And that made me go back to my prayer room and sit down with my journal and say to the Lord, do I love any of them? Do I love them? And um, and so I explored if I do love them, then am I loving them well? And if I'm not loving them well, what is love? And he would wake me up in the wee hours in the morning, like one o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning, and I would go into my prayer room with my journal, which was called The Battle Plans. And I would say, I need help with this because I'm not loving well and I don't know what love is. And so he would sit there and take me through First Corinthians and um all these chapters on love and just work with me. So it was a very personal journey on loving um these very different reasons for having issues with each one of them. And um, and then after about maybe five months of working on it with the Lord, he was like, This is your message. You need to help other women because they're also struggling with this, but they can't hear my voice. They they don't know how to sit down at my feet to learn this stuff, and so you need to be my voice. So it started as a speaking engagement, and then I had too much to say for my my 45 minutes in the speaking engagement. So I felt the Lord was like, you um uh he had me write down like notes of what I wanted to say. Then he said, I want you to write the word chapters next to these big pillars, and that's when he kind of showed me that this was gonna be more than a 45 minute speaking engagement because there's just too much to say. I mean, five months of sitting at his feet, there's a lot to say, a lot to share.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

And you you've shared some really beautiful stuff and very vulnerable stuff there, because you know, most of us don't like to admit that we're not loving well and that we're not following what Jesus called us to do. And we come up with all these, we call them reasons, but they're actually excuses as to why we can't or we shouldn't, or it's not gonna work. So I really appreciate your heart in that. And I just thank you for that. Because folks, if you're listening and this is touching you, and you're going, yeah, I can relate, but I wouldn't dare admit it. I think that recognizing it and admitting it is the start because you can't heal what you don't reveal, you know. And so thank you for that. Thank you. And you then took your own journey and used it to empower and encourage and inspire others to do the same. And I love the way that you explained when you you know, you didn't expect this, you didn't sit down and say, Okay, now I'm going to become a love coach. It just unfolded because that's the way God so often works. But tell me, as you step from that, experiencing it yourself to sharing it with the other with others, why do you think love is so important to God?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Well, I always say he tells us this in three big ways. And he first of all, he tells us to love him with all our hearts, all our minds, all our soul, and all our strength, and then to love others, right, as ourselves. So he tells us as a big commandment of it. You see it in the old testament and it's repeated in the new testament, huge to him, and then he sits at in the um upper room with his disciples, and he's about to die, and he tells them, A new command I give you. And he says, To love one another. And at first it sounds like, well, isn't that not a new command? Because you already told us that we're supposed to love others, right? And now you're saying it's a new command. So what makes it so new? And he's really talking about within the body of Christ, right? Like we are to show others that we are God's disciples by the way we love one another. So he's telling us to love everyone in the first one, and in the second one, he says, I want you to love your brothers and sisters like this. But then we also get an account of Jesus talking in Matthew, and he's talking about loving even your enemies. So if you say, Well, I don't know, Jesus is just talking about Christians loving other Christians, you know, within the body. He goes further to say, you have to love even your enemies. And when you read that in one big sentence of you put it all together, you see that he wants you to love the people who are close to you, the people who are around you, and even your enemies. He basically means everybody, and there's no exception. And and for him to say, like, this is a command, he doesn't use that word all the time to say, I command you this, I command you that, but this is really dear to God's heart, and Jesus shows us this as his example, and so it's it's uh not one of those things you can just brush by, I feel like. And um, and anytime you see something in the old testament, you see it again in the new testament, you know that this is an overarching message for everyone for the entire message that he has. And basically, the Bible is his love story to us, and we are not deserving of his love either, if you look at the way we treat him and we act against the things that we should be doing all the time, and yet he still loves us. It just it just brings you, you know, to humility.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

It brings you that that kind of tenderness, and we don't always express that to other people, and folks, I just want to say, you know, I've walked through some some dark valleys in my life, as I'm sure we all have. And in those moments, you might be going, No, don't talk to me about love, you don't understand, and it's not about anyone understanding, it's about you letting God in to help you love and heal. And I I really just feel like there is somebody who is listening to this who gets to be touched by that right now, and if you're feeling hard and cold and bitter, just take a moment to surrender because that that bitterness and that hardness is probably you trying to protect yourself from hurt, and I feel like God is saying to you, you're safe, you're safe in my love, and walk with me, and I will guide you how to love, it doesn't mean exposing yourself. I've I really feel like somebody's been so badly hurt and they're worried about being hurt again. And I know just from what I've heard from Katina, what Katina teaches and her Bible study that these are the things she addresses. But if you're listening and going, I don't want to listen to this, but I'm not turning it off, then God has a message for you right now. You can love, and on the other side, you are lovable, trust him with it because love is that important to God, it is the core of God, the father heart of God is to love you, and that's uh this is none of this is what was prepared for today. So if this is a message for you, I would love you to just drop a comment in below or reach out to me. But especially for someone who's heard those instructions to love and is finding it difficult to live it out. Perhaps because they hurt, perhaps because they haven't had an example. How would you answer that question? What is the first step they can take to stop shutting their ears off to the message of love?

SPEAKER_00 14:45

So um, in my chapter on so how do you get this kind of love is what it's called. Um, I talk a lot about abiding and spending time with God because I see it like we're we're his earthly vessels, and he's the God of all this love, right? And we tend to feel like we take our our little cup, let's say we are the cup, and we go under his his pouring of love and we pray and we feel really filled up, and then we walk away from it, yes, and we take our cup with us, and we start diving out love based on what's in our cup, and so we'll say, Oh, you deserve a little bit of love. I'll give you some of this love. You deserve love, you don't deserve love because you've hurt me and I can't give it to you. And by the time you start getting your cup more and more empty, you start rationing more and keeping it for yourself because you feel like um that person doesn't deserve the love and I'm gonna be all empty. If I empty myself, I won't, I won't have anything left. And that leaves you vulnerable, it leaves you upset, resentful, bitter if you tried to give them the rest of it and say, Well, I'm supposed to be generous, so here, I'll give you the rest of it. But then you are not walking around with God's love in you anymore, right? And so you're walking around in this emptiness. So the way that the Lord has me pictured it is like he is the running stream, and we're to just remain under him. We don't fill our cup and walk away, we fill it, and when it overflows, we stay. And because it's from the overflow that you love other people, it's not from the deficit, you're not picking and choosing who to love because you're gonna come up empty. You are sitting underneath the overflow, and and then you can love with that overflow because you're full of the Holy Spirit, you're full of of Christ's love for you. So I feel like I feel like we walk around in a deficit because even us Christians, because we spend that limited time with the Lord and not we're not continually plugged into the Lord. And so, yeah, then we're always walking around in a deficit and we're always worried about who is taking from us, and we have no more to give. And it's so much easier said than done. It seems, you know, like, oh yeah, that sounds good. I understand that analogy, but it really is having the Lord pour into you. And that's that's one of the um, I do talk about this in the book in chapter two, where it talks about God's love. And when he tells us to love others as ourselves, there's a as yourself. You have to understand and see yourself rightly under the the cup as the cup of God's love, right? So you have to you have to be filled and to understand how loved you are in order for you to outpour that into loving other people.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Yeah, and you said it, it sounds so easy. Oh God, fill me up, and then I'll be overflowing and I will flow over onto everybody else. Yeah, we know it sounds that way, but life is real and life can get tough, and we can't do it on our own, we can only do it with the Holy Spirit. And is there a particular scripture that shapes your understanding of love? Because your understanding is so deep and so intimate and so beautiful. Do you have a particular scripture?

SPEAKER_00 18:43

Um, so I studied a lot of First Corinthians 13, 4 through 6, where it says, love is patient, love is kind, love doesn't envy, it does not boast, it's not doesn't have pride, it's uh not self-seeking. It I'm trying to say it from memory. You're doing pretty well. I'm doing pretty well on it, but um, I know I'm missing some some factors in here. Uh it doesn't dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, and it keeps no record of wrong, and it's uh seeks out truth, and it does not it stops at evil, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, and it always protects, it always perseveres, it always trusts, and it always hopes. So that is the the crux of what the Lord kept taking me back to, and then really breaking it down um into what love is and what love isn't, what love always does. And um, and I would say, I would say to him, I don't know how many times as I'm trying to memorize this this Bible verse, and he keeps pointing me back to there. And when I would have trouble with my hard to love people, I would say, he would say, What is love? You know, as I would have a hard time, and he'd say, What is love? And I would say, love is patient, love is kind, and Lord, I can't remember anything else. And he would say to me, Well, okay, let's start there. Are you being patient and kind? And most of the time that already I was failing at it, right? And so if you can get the first two down of love is patient, love is kind, the rest kind of falls into place. I think that that's a really good start. I think that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah. Yeah. Because if you can express the patience and the kindness, and plus with yourself too, because what you the way you treat yourself will be the way you treat others. At the end of the day, the way you do one thing is the way you do anything. And you mentioned there, uh-huh, love keeps no record of wrongs. That doesn't mean that because you've got these thoughts, these feelings, these emotions, you must now go and sit in a corner and feel guilty. What it does mean is that if you are keeping record of wrongs, what do you get to do? You get the honor and the privilege of surrendering that to the father so that he can replace that with love. Nobody's saying this is easy, nobody's saying that true love is something that's just makes everything smooth sailing. No, it doesn't. But boy, is it beautiful. And how do we receive and practice that kind of love? How do you actually receive it?

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Receiving it is from the Lord, right? he tells us that love is not self-seeking. And um and so a lot of a lot of the people that I have coached, um they they're expecting to go through my program so that the other person loves them more. And I will tell them that that that is love is self-seeking right there. Like if you are looking to be loved by the other person, you could wait your whole entire life and that could never happen. And God does not tell us to love others so that they love you back. And in fact he tells us that even um evil people will give good things to their sons right and they will do good for people who are good to them. Like that's a reciprocal it's easy to be loving toward people who are loving back to you. It's very very easy. But God does not ask us of that. He asks us to love anyways even when they don't reciprocate. So so when you say how do you receive love it's it's uh understanding of God's love it's receiving of his love so that he can feel you full and it doesn't matter as much what the other person is saying or doing or acting you know toward you or yeah so um so that's a really good question. Like how do you receive his love especially if you've never been loved before in the right way right that I think that we have a lot we project a lot of human characteristics on God that he does not have because he he is beyond what humans can do. And um I think it's a lot of meditation on his word really of who he says he is and and I've just finished reading the old testament I'm doing the Bible recap which is learning the Bible in a year and we just now are in the new testament and you see God's character of how much he loves his people even when they sin and they do all the time Old Testament is just a a book of all of the sins of the past and um and he still follows them and he still reaches out and says I want you to love me because I love you so much he says he's slow to anger and full of compassion and everlasting love.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

And I think that's still beautiful in yeah and I think you you made an important distinction there about love not being self-seeking how do you receive love you don't receive it by taking it or demanding it and that's kind of like yeah that's obvious but how often do we expect someone to love us and respond unlovingly when they don't meet that expectation you know it's it's very normal but normal doesn't make it right and you you've taken all of this everything God's done to tenderize your heart so beautifully and you've turned it into some coaching.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

So what did it look like for you when you first stepped into coaching so I was a life coach before like already when I was going through this process which was very hard um because I felt like I was going through a major pruning session with the Lord of um figuring out who I was and I hadn't figured out a niche at that time. So I was coaching more in general like people's general issues and and I didn't want to do this because I was so traumatized I guess is a good word I was going through my own issues that were so personal that I couldn't even imagine helping someone else at the time for a while. So it took me um really until I was writing a Bible study um I had when I was writing a Bible study I had graduated a lot of people out of my out of my coaching because my daughter had graduated and we were going on a trip to Europe and my people were doing really well everybody was doing well. So I figured this is a good time um to see you know where they're gonna be and right before the graduation I went for a mammogram and they found a spot in not in the mammogram but in the sonogram and this was um I already had breast cancer in the past so I ended up um having the biopsy after we got back from from Europe and um and it turned out to be positive. So I was actually spent that summer going through breast cancer treatments and stuff while I was also writing my book and um and it was a precious time because I really was walking so closely with the Lord as I was writing and um you know if I had if I had clients it was so many last minute appointments come up it's just so hard to manage all of those things. And so I really feel like it was a gift from God to um allow me to have that time period. And even as I wrote the book it was very um there was so much spiritual warfare going on especially in my mind like who are you who are you to write this book you didn't even go to seminary or you didn't even do this or that and um finally my big spiritual uh awakening was when I finally just said um not only am I the child of the most high God but I'm the one who said yes yeah and I don't there's nothing more makes me more special than God asked me to when I said yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

I love that and you said it there it's about saying yes not saying yes to your hurt or those things that have cut you off from love but by saying yes to the love of God and letting that seep into your hearts and overflow folks so just take a moment right now and think of one person you haven't been loving to be mindful of it because we often don't think about it and I'm gonna ask you to be mindful enough that when you are finished listening to this you surrender that to God that you go and flip it. So how do we flip it? How do we do it differently well let's ask the expert you know when things are tough like that and somebody just doesn't know where to start because they hurt and frustrated and angry where would you encourage someone to start always start with what what is it what are what are what are the variables what's going on and taking it very objectively at first I think you have to know your starting place.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

And um in the Bible study I start with chapter one is the variables that affect love and it asks you a lot of questions. And so it can be that you define love differently and what you think is love is not what the other person thinks is love. And um I talk about that even in the genetics part because genetics can affect love. Genetics can be your predisposition the way that you um your personality type I mean how many times do we conflict because of personality right um but also your love language because some person might one person might uh have a love language of gifts and the other person's like I just want you to tell me I'm doing a good job in life you know and they're and maybe their parent never ever tells them that and that's what they they desire the deepest desire is for my mom to say good job you did a good job on that and instead you know maybe she's showering you with acts of service or with gifts or something else that doesn't matter to you at all and you feel unloved when they think they're doing a good job with the way that they're loving, you know so it can be it can be something as little as that it can be um past experiences how what what has happened in your past that has affected your love it can be values that spend a lot a little time on values because you can value different things and that just comes across as not loving and it can be that you value the same thing like you both value family but one person values it in a way that looks completely different than another person.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

And all of a sudden there's a conflict of values and so I I like breaking down like where is our starting place I feel like um it's easier to talk about things objectively before you get into the emotional parts of that right and so there's a word of wisdom in there don't be like me and you do the emotional explosion and all the rest and then you calm down and you realize it's totally different to what you thought.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

Yes you know I think if yeah yeah yeah so I usually start I start there with the what's going on um a lot of people probably the majority of people who come to me um their difficult person is a mom or dad most of the time and then the next one is probably a sibling and interesting yeah yeah yeah and then some people will come with um with a marriage you know issue and um and then all of the principles apply to the marriage as well as these other issues but it's not I don't um consider me a marriage coach at this point in time. The Lord hasn't led me down that path as much as reconcile within the family because I think if you can reconcile with your parents I there's so many people right now in this world who have cut their parents off. Yeah and it's just a phenomenon it's it's terrible and they just don't like what they believe in or they don't like how they treated them as a kid or whatever reason and they walk away and there's so many kids are growing up not knowing their grandparents they're not knowing history and the past they're um so there's just so much and then they're learning our kids are learning from watching us right so if we are cutting off our parents they're learning that family's not important and they're likely going to cut you off when you do something wrong because that's what they're being taught.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

And they're seeing an example of what you think love looks like so how do you think they're gonna teach treat you when you get a little bit older because they learn by example and you you are a huge influence in your kids' life so keep that in mind folks but you know you can't go around and love everybody 101% we were talking about this a little earlier you don't have a hundred and one percent to give of love of taking what other people are dishing out at you of all of those things. So let's talk about love and boundaries because quite a few of the listeners might be saying am I a doormat? Do I have to be a doormat to be dealing with love and love difficult people because loving difficult people is no small feat.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

And you know do I get to be a doormat and just let them treat me like that or can I have boundaries how would you deal with that that is such a perfect segment that is the actually the exact title of that chapter in my book am I a doormat or can I have boundaries so um yes there are boundaries so when it comes to boundaries love is it halts at sin. It's in 1 Corinthians 13 it says in verse six love does not delight in evil but rejoices in truth. So the evil is the sin right and so when we find that there is sin that is occurring in the relationship that's where a boundary needs to be it's where love halts a little and says something's wrong here. It doesn't stop but it says something's wrong and something needs to be corrected in this so when we put up a boundary let's say uh your hard to love person um is demanding of you and so what's the sin you have to say okay they're being um self-seeking right and demanding maybe a manipulative you know that God does not like that so you say okay I want to love you but your manipulation is making it hard for me to love you and this is also what I'll talk about when we say um you know love keeps no records of wrong I will tell people that that that is um a record of wrong also keeps a record of of negativity right it's an emotional uh record it's not just a a very um observative record it's it's it's emotional there's so much emotion behind it so when you make an observation it's okay to make an observation of patterns you're not keeping records of the wrong you're making an observation of patterns and when you see that there's a pattern and it's a sin pattern then you know that there needs to be a boundary because either it's going to make um the other person sin or it's going to make you sin in your response to them. And we are to respond in love. So if you say this person always manipulates me when we get to this certain point in our conversation then I need to pray about what kind of thing can I say or do or say let's table this conversation this is not going anywhere or I'm sorry but I have to stand up for myself because when I allow you to manipulate me I'm allowing you to sin and I can't do that because I love you too much to allow you to walk in that way. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 38:34

It turns out that's so powerful because you're actually you're serving and this is what you were saying about love earlier and even about boundaries I'm a firm believer that unlike the way the world teaches boundaries boundaries serve the person you set them up with as much as they set you up. They are there to protect everybody when they only protect one party it's like having a brick wall that looks solid but it's got spikes on the other side and those spikes are going to hurt but what a beautiful description of how to actually move through with that okay so what might a healthy boundary actually sound like in a conversation it would sound like I love you too much to let you XYZ that's beautiful and so simple so simple we so overcomplicate it so remember if you're driving come back and listen to that so you can write it down what would you say to somebody who feels guilty because the other person doesn't like the boundaries they've set well when you set it with the Holy Spirit then you know that it's a boundary that's good for them and they're not gonna like it and they're not gonna like it at first.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

So that's where you just have to say look I love you too much to let you keep doing this. I love you the it's out of my love for you that I'm putting up this this stop sign in in this relationship because I it's and you can make it into yourself like when you when you manipulate me like this I end up resenting you and I don't want to resent you anymore I want to love you.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Powerful powerful well folks I I mean do you see the depth we can we could talk about this for hours do you see how beautifully she puts it and brings it across you can tell this comes from our heart and Katina I just want to thank you so much for being vulnerable to God so that he could start this journey with you and then sharing it going forward.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Now you've also been generous enough to give our audience a gift tell us about that yeah so on uh my website mbnlifecoaching.com I have a free gift of um there is a boundaries one on some boundaries that Christian women can can do that still stay in their lane of being a Christian woman I think that a lot of us feel like um like you said are we just a doormat or what are we allowed to put up of boundaries and this is done in love and I think that you'll really enjoy it especially if boundaries are your thing so or your anti-theme like it's very hard to do I think people pleasers have a hard time with boundaries and and that's why I think I had to work with the Lord so much on my own boundaries um and seeing it from this point of view because I felt selfish. I felt so selfish to put up a boundary and the Lord was like this is not selfish this is this is totally loving and you're doing it because you love the other person so much. And since I have been able to put up boundaries in this way my relationships have flourished and it took takes it to a whole new level when I think of boundaries I always think about the temple and you know God set up boundaries certain people went into different areas to within the center of the temple because if Joe Schmoe from down the road went right into the center he would have died because that's how it worked in the glory of God.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

So it protected them it wasn't to keep them out from a negative point of view and different people moved in towards the temple and were allowed and given permission to be part of that because they had the knowledge the understanding or they belonged in those places and that's so true with boundaries we open areas of our lives to people who don't belong there and then we wonder why we get hurt and can't love and why we struggle to love those people possibly because they didn't belong there in that role in the first place so don't if you're in that situation get into guilt and condemnation remember how God feels about you he loves you he's pouring out love not guilt and condemnation so thank you for that beautiful gift that you are sharing and it's in the show notes you don't have to pull over and stop driving it's in the show notes and I just I just want to say thank you thank you for your beautiful heart any last words of encouragement for our audience I say choose love have a sign that sits behind me over here that says love always wins and it does it does I don't think that there's any condemnation by God if you choose love and and sometimes we will get hurt but if you are the type of person that gets hurt a lot then this is something you need to pray about with the Holy Spirit and just see what what boundary needs to go up. And like what you said like I was just reading that earlier about giving your pearls to swine sometimes we forget and we give too much um to people who don't deserve it that doesn't mean we love them less it just means that we keep things that are treasures to ourselves a little more so um yeah being dis discerned and along with that pearls are of no use to swine yeah that's the that's the other side of it so folks I just want to encourage you if you think there's somebody else who this message could touch who could benefit from hearing this please share it with them and of course don't forget to like the podcast don't forget to go in and drop in comments we will be watching out for them but I want to thank you and Katina I want to thank you for being with us today because when we live in love we can have joy without love there is no joy. So I'm gonna say what I always say go out enjoy be led forth in peace and have an amazing amazing week ahead but don't forget this message is powerful share it with somebody you know who deserves to hear it. Katina thank you so much and have a joyful week everybody thank you so much for joining me on the Joy Inspired Podcast at wwwjoinspiredpodcast.com Make sure you hit that subscribe button so that you can get this and every other episode that comes out we have lots of great stuff coming and you don't want to miss it. So make sure hit that subscribe I'm so grateful for all the reviews and comments and I look forward to serving you for next week's episode.